Gaming angst

[melchar]

Okay, this is in the realm of midnight complaints. When I referee a game for others, my intent is that I really want to present a story in the game-world that is fun, inspires some emotional responses, makes the players think and exposes them to a sense of danger and adventure. [remember that Bilbo Baggins called adventures nasty untidy things that makes one late for breakfast.]

All in all I think I do a good job of preparing the game, keeping things going without turning it into an IRS audit session because of the rules - while not ignoring the structure that rules do provide.

Unfortunately for a while now I have had the sense that I have some players who would rather be somewhere else. Like playing on the PS2 or GBA or playing cards or reading or sleeping, rather than paying attention to what is happening at the table.

Some of this is my fault, just because:
[a] = during a combat, even the quickest combat turn passes slowly when there are more than 4 players in a game and each has their turn, describing their action/rolling dice;
[b] = that my corrected vision causes me to now have to = look at set-up with glasses to see table/take glasses off to refer to facts on sheet/make rolls/take notes = for each of the baddies they are fighting, which also takes forever when there is more than one monster on the table being fought -- so combat turns just take a lot of time
[c] = so combat turns take time and interaction takes time because it's not just one-on-one talking to a single character and when it's shopping everyone wants to have full concentration for their shopping all at the same time.

But just WHEN did everyone decide that if I was NOT looking at them then they were going to go away from the table?!? Even if it isn't all about THEM at the time, why aren't they interested in what else is happening?

And then there are players who are AT the table who seem like they would rather ruin the game for EVERYBODY else just so they can cause trouble by questioning rules, bringing up rules, wanting to amend the rules and quoting rules from memory [at rare times, actually quoting the rules correctly] - just to make a point.

And I find myself wondering = why am I putting up with this?

Currently my Saturday game has 9 players in it. The Sunday game has 7 players. Some of the problem players are in both games and piss me off for different reasons. Inattention pizzes me off almost as much as the rule-bitching because it implies indifference to the game.

I'm getting really annoyed in both games. I've been doing really choice games with involved plots and getting complaints about how tough the stories are for both games [while the characters still are 'winning' in that they are, for the most part, surviving to accomplish specific missions]. And the Saturday host is driving me out of the house by blaring at high HIGH volume his TIVO'd shows during the dinner break. More of the Saturday players really don't put any effort into putting any kind of personality into their character - and there are some who make really ANNOYING comments that make problems for others and then claim it wasn't being said by their characters. Sadly, the worst rule's-bitcher is in both games and making MORE people than just me want to strangle him. Meanwhile a couple of the better players are also pissing me off by doing the card playing thing way too often. But then there are the players who ARE trying to put life into their characters and who DO pay attention. And some of them are driving a considerable distance just to be in my games.

I am like SO conflicted. What do I do? It's not like there's a convenient DELETE button to get rid of the problem parts of my problem players. When good, they do contribute to a better game and I personally like ALL of the players, when away from the table. It's just mounting problems that is making my sanity points dribble out of my ears!

Comments

[efng.livejournal.com]

Ok, so I realize I am in one of those games but I am going to try and pretendin this post to be an objective person....

The first thought is do you think the players know how you feel? Both as a group and on a one to one basis? Have you talked to each one that gives you specific problems in a private manner? Have you talked to the ones that don't? Some or even all might not realize that they are doing anything that is upsetting to you or realize the degree to which you are being upset and would want to know.

As for the 3 problems you list, (B) doesnt feel like it is going to slow things down as much as many other issues. People are going to take more time and thought then moving your glasses around. Also, can you get new glasses that solve your problem? As for (A) it sounds as if you like the system you have. If so and you have already examined it and removed whatever slows you down, your done here and there is no problem.

(C) is a pickle. (C) is what gaming is about. Sometimes the GM is talking to just one person and the others have to suck it up. The challenge is making sure everyone get a part of the big GM pie,or at least a part that everyone is happy with and that may not be possible depending on the amount of time each person needs to feel as if they are a part of the story. Some people need to be on screen in every scene to feel as if they are a part while others wait for their moment to shine.

Really, the rest of your post is about the players and there is where the hard choices lie. Some players don't mix well with other types of players or GMs or game systems or stories. Finding a good match is important. If someone is causing too much trouble they have to stop it. Period. It doesn't matter how they feel about it, it must stop. If they can't or won't then it is the wrong game for EVERYONE involved and keeping them around is just going to make things worse.

An easy example is you mention that one of your problem players is in both games. That means you get a double helping of stress from one person. He should be talked to so that he knows what is going on. He likely doesnt want to cause pain, it is just a natural to how he likes to play and who he is playing with. If he can't or wont change then you have to look at the situation: Does he cause more problems in one gmae or the other? Maybe you could releive alot of stress by simply asking him to bow out of one game.

There is one more thing that I have made the mistake of and I feel you have as well. This is a group story telling enterprise. While being the GM you have extra power and responsiblty but far from 100% or even 50%. Your players wants and desires matter. Your players ALSO have to take responsiblty for the game they are in. If there is a problem that many of the group are having with 1 or 2 players then the GROUP has to say something to those people as well as you. It isn't YOUR job it is, EVERYONES and they get off their ass and speak.

[efng.livejournal.com]

ok...now no more pretending. I know at least some of what is causing you trouble. I have no clue how much trouble I cause but i am sorry for any of it - i had no clue things were bad for you or that I was making things worse. Let me know what I can do to change things on my end and I will try.

It seems to me one of the hardest things for you is not giving people what they want. What this means is that the people who want the most get the most,regardless of what it is. Part of what needs to happen is that people have to be told no and the people who want the most have to be told no the most.

Now one that I know is a problem are the rules that float around. I can think of 3 people that maybe causing you rules-trama, one of which could be me. Mine tends to be (I hope) more of a "what way should they work just because i like thinking about it" but that could be causing you greif even thou i want to avoid that. However anyone attached to the rules is going to have a problem when they can't see the rules. A custom rule system is not going to be for certain people.

As for shopping problem, well unless you are really attached to either lots of shopping or no shopping, sometimes people on both sides just have to suck it up and stay at the table and not get their way. Again,people have to be told they can't shortcut shopping and sometimes that they can't go shopping, even when they want to. It is about finding balance.

I also like the notion i just had about things like the cart or people encumberance. If they are really close to the edge and for some reson there is going to be a massive re-calc the they just go over the edge *for now* Ie make it so that have to be clearly one side or the other until end of game session. It might limit the time wasted in game to re-calcing all the number and it gets ride of being "just one pund under." Until end of session anyways. Thought anyways...

The single biggest issue I see being a part of everything is that players are not the same as friends. Sometimes players may just not fit in to a group. They can be great PEOPLE but not fit into a game. If someone wants to play a dark, brooding vamp in a game with a bunch of cartoons it isn't going to work.(not unless the player is happy being the straight man)

I am a good example. I might end up sleeping to much and leaving early too often. If you asked me to leave I should understand that it isn't personal, it is just what works for the game. If people are asked to change by the group for the group they should understand.

Remember your not alone. Talk to the players that you think feel like you do and see what solutions they can come up with and how they can support you.

Wow,that came out long.....

[victor-cow.livejournal.com]

All very good points. I am guilty for being late and leaving the table occasionally.

I admit i'm a little tired due to the 2 hour drive, but for me its worth it. I usually leave about 10 0r 10:30, but than there is the traffic.

Saturday is my only day to house clean so that has me a little worn too.

I really appreciate you scheduling the games every other week. If that's a problem too let me know. I certainly don't want to be a problem.

I think if there is a problem you should tell us. Some people may feel toes are stepped on but toes heal. If people don't take your disstress seriously than they really dont care in the first place.

I have had to take breaks from gaming just so people could cool off and stop the arguing. Eventually after the games continue the arguing isn't far behind.

Thats my 10 cents.